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‘I made it very clear even at the casting process that there was going to be a lot of nudity. And I wanted to be sure that it would be done with ease.’
IMAGE: Demi Moore, right, and Director Coralie Fargeat at Cannes. Photograph: Sarah Meyssonnier/Reuters
This year, the Best Screenplay Award at the Cannes Film Festival was awarded to French film-maker Coralie Fargeat, writer and director of The Substance.
It is definitely the most audacious, bold and terrifying film of the year.
Following the Cannes recognition, The Substance won the People’s Choice Award in the Midnight Madness section at the Toronto International Film Festival.
In The Substance, Fargeat explores show business and the world of television where women are supposed to look young and perfect. Any sign of aging and the television executives will immediately replace the anchor. Or in this case, the star of an aerobics show.
The Substance stars Demi Moore, the Hollywood celebrity, who had virtually vanished from the big screen, although she was seen in a few series.
At 62, Moore’s star seemed to have been eclipsed by younger actresses. And so The Substance is also a reflection of a possible situation where a star like Moore could get desperate to reimagine herself and emerge once again in the public eye.
Rejected by her television channel, Elisabeth Sparkle, a famous aerobics instructor (played by Moore) resorts to extreme measures, taking shots that create a chemical reaction in her body. The result is Sue (Margaret Qualley, Andie MacDowell’s daughter), a younger version of Elisabeth, who emerges out of her body.
The violence of one person exiting another takes on an extreme form as Elisabeth and Sue (essentially one person) start to compete with each other.
The Substance is shocking and thrilling. And in a year of many actors shedding their clothes — from Nicole Kidman (Babygirl) to Daniel Craig (Queer) and Jacob Elordi (On Swift Horses), Moore and Qualley are often shown completely naked in their most vulnerable state.
Censors in India would surely have issues with the content in The Substance, but audiences can watch the film at the Mumbai Film Festival (MAMI). The film will also stream on MUBI India.
Fargeat tells Aseem Chhabra, “When I first met Demi Moore, I had this image of a movie star and a very famous actress. Before we decided to work together, I read her autobiography (Inside Out) and I was impressed. By reading her book, I discovered another side to the actress I only knew on the screen. I could understand why she would want to take the risk and accept this role.”
Coralie, your short film Reality + (2014 film, currently streaming on MUBI) focused on this theme of men and woman trying to get perfect bodies and faces. Why did you revisit the theme in The Substance? And this time, you focus only on women.
I think at that time, I wasn’t ready to fully address the issue in a direct way.
I was younger and so it was easier to make a general statement that included men and women.
After I made my first feature film Revenge (2017), I became more aware about similar issues.
I was ready to address them in a very specific way.
Also, I thought about my own story, how I have experienced things in my own life.
IMAGE: Demi Moore in The Substance.
This question is no reflection on Demi Moore because I think she is brilliant in this film, but did you consider Andie McDowell for the role? That would also have been interesting as Margaret Qualley’s character would have come out of her mother’s body.
I didn’t want the film to be about a mother-daughter relationship because it would have felt awkward.
I am sure that many actresses could have been great in the role played by Demi.
I think many actresses have experienced the same reactions as they get older.
They are offered fewer roles when they get to a certain age.
I believe Demi was the one for this part. It was a risky project with a lot of nudity and exposure, and she was confident enough to accept it.
IMAGE: Demi Moore in The Substance.
I think everyone wants to see Demi Moore make a comeback with a splash. Did she have any reservations about the role? The same question applies to Margaret Qualley. How prepared was she to take on this challenging role?
It’s interesting because from the beginning, the script was crystal clear.
Of course, you can be as clear as you want on the page, but everyone would still have their own interpretation of how it’s going to be shown.
I made it very clear even at the casting process that there was going to be a lot of nudity. And I wanted to be sure that it would be done with ease.
I needed partners who would want to tell the same story the way I had visualised it.
So during the early discussions, I prepared them about how the movie was going to be shot.
Both were on board and understood that the nudity and everything that was quite bold was there to serve a purpose.
Was there anything they said they wouldn’t do?
There really wasn’t anything they refused to do.
Everything that is on screen was in the script, so there was no surprise.
I explained all the scenes that had nudity, and how I would film them. If there were any issues, they would have spoken to me.
IMAGE: Margaret Qualley in The Substance.
After waiting so long, Demi Moore has got an incredible role. This is her comeback film. How is she responding to the press and public reactions?
When I first met her, I had this image of a movie star and a very famous actress. Before we decided to work together, I read her autobiography (Inside Out) and I was impressed.
I understood how she went through everything on her own.
She had a tough life on many points and that made her the way she is today.
She had a strong will and was always thinking out of the box.
She took definite feminist positions and was ahead of her time.
She is a smart woman.
By reading her book, I discovered another side to the actress I only knew on the screen. I could understand why she would want to take the risk and accept this role.
When I look at her now, I am so happy.
I feel like she has become so much stronger in the past few years.
I think she has earned her place again.
It was really good to see her at the film’s Cannes premiere because she deserved all the success.
She is really brave, and it was a long and tough shooting. She cared about her character and played the role in a super sincere way.
That’s what I love about film because you cannot lie. Her honesty and sincerity shows on the screen.
You said at the press conference that this was the first step towards equality as far men and women are concerned and how bodies are shown on the screen. Can you explain?
To me, when we you talk about feminism, I believe that we are really at the very beginning of how everything should be and lead to real equality.
To me, the body issue is one big representation of the rest of the power issues and how societies are still so imbalanced.
IMAGE: A scene from The Substance.
How did you think in terms of portraying the female bodies, clothed and naked?
There are two sides of showing the women’s bodies in the film. One is in the external world, that is represented by the TV show and the sexist behaviour of the male executives.
The other is more internal as presented in the bathroom in Elisabeth’s apartment, where the bodies exist on their own.
I wanted to stress that the way you are looked at outside influences the way you look at yourself, when you are facing the mirror at home and no one is looking at you. I believe those two worlds are related and one influences the other.
It’s because there is all this gaze outside at the TV station and elsewhere that when Elisabeth is at home with her own body and she looks at herself, she feels that she is not good enough.
At that moment when I show the naked body, it is not sexualised nudity.
When the bodies of the two protagonists are lying on the floor, it is the reality, real flesh.
But the body that is shown on the TV show is transformed by the gaze.
It is objectified and hyper sexualised. It always has to be perfect and gorgeous.
IMAGE: The Substance Director Coralie Fargeat. Photograph: MUBI
I know like everywhere else France also had its #MeToo movement. So it is interesting that you show a very clear case of harassment in this film, where a woman is replaced in her job because she is getting old and losing her youthful looks.
I feel it’s always great when fiction meets reality.
What I was shocked by was that after the first wave of #MeToo explosion, there was a big backlash and things appeared to slowly change.
But when you see the data, numbers about violence against women, it’s so crazy. You realise that nothing has really changed.
Because to change things, there has to be a strong will.
It’s not going to happen by itself.
On a personal level, I think my way to express what I feel is reflected in the film.
So, you know, after all the female nudity, you had one brief shot of the backside of a minor male character. I am sure you were having fun, of course, but can you just tell me about the thinking behind that scene?
Well, it came naturally during the writing. When you are playing with codes of the genre and also trying to find a way to flip them in a way.
And also, as you said, I was having fun.
I love to mix humour in a genre film because it allows the audience to bear the excess and extreme violence, especially when there are graphic images.
It is something that can release the pressure.
And at that time, in this particular scene having the characters on the two sides of the door was pretty fun. It is just something that I let myself go through in the writing process.
